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What if?? Find dead bull?

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What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 1]

With Roosie's story last year I got to thinking, what if while out hunting you haven't seen or heard anyone all day and about 5 in the evening you come up on a dead bull??? For conversation we will say that the meat is still good but it looks like this bull needs cleaned out soon for it to stay that way? Also for conversation, let's say you have no cell service.

I will share my thoughts in a bit....

A thought to consider is the legality issues of this too.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Tigger » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 2]

Are we assuming we can tell it was shot? I assume so. Take a picture of the arrow. Mark GPS coordinates.

I quarter it and hang it. Then I try and find the owner. Trailheads, campsites, etc. Call Game Warden.

As long as we don't take possession of it and call the game warden as soon as we can get reception, I see no legality issues.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby saddlesore » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 3]

Not a bull,but a cow.Years ago,I came upon a cow elk that had been shot .Nearby were two other cows and a calf.All shot ,but cleaned out and tagged.This one was in a brush pile.I looked around,tagged it, gutted, and quartered it.When I was done, the local rancher came by and started loading elk as I sat there. I ask him if he knew there was another dead cow.He got a worried look on his face and said no.I said well ,I found one and tagged it.He wasn't mad,but upset that they had tagged a calve and not a big cow.
They had obviously came riding around a bend and ran into a herd of cows and started herd shooting.
If no one is around and it looks like the bull was never found or abandoned, I would tag it. I won't steal another's elk, but I won't let one go to waste.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Swede » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 4]

I would check it out to make sure the meat was good then start butchering. If no one shows up to claim it, I would pack it almost all the way out to the truck. Depending on certain factors, unknown at this time, it will be 9:00PM to midnight before I finish.
I have come across spoiled animals in the woods before. If you don't butcher it now, it will be spoiled by morning. I may leave the elk in quarter bags hid out over night. If I know of a camp or so, I may check in even late at night. I might ask "did one of you guys shoot a big spike earlier today"? If they say no, but I shot ....., I could say I found it and let them reclaim it.
If I know of no other camps around the area, it is getting tagged and going to the locker in town.
I believe the elk is legally yours if no one comes around to claim it. It was lost and would not have been salvaged.
The biggest risk is that someone may come around when you are butchering. They may not understand, so I would not tag right away, and let them know you were just trying to make sure it did not spoil. A note tacked to a nearby tree might help explain if you are found butchering.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Old school » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 5]

Swede - couldn't have said it better myself. We think alike.

--Mitch
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby ElkNut1 » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 6]

If it's still a fresh kill as you describe I'd look to see where the shot was in the animal. If deadly then the elk most likely went no more than a few hundred yards from being shot! The hunter could be nearby in search of! I'd holler out searching for him. If I could tell the animal was hit where he no doubt traveled 1/4 to 1/2 mile minimum then I'd break it down & put it in bags but leave it there! Take photos of the elk before breaking down. -- Head out & talk to all camps you can locate in the area to locate rightful owner, someone other than the hunter may have heard about it & steer you in the right direction finding the guy!

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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 18, 2018 •  [Post 7]

if I had cell service (which I often do) I would call the local game warden first, and see if he knows who else is hunting around there, and just give him a heads up. next I would field dress, get it in game bags, and get it all hung in the shade, then go looking for the hunters (I know most access points of the places I hunt, and would have a good shot at finding who it was)

if I could not find the hunter at all, I would get back in touch with the game warden, get it packed out, so it could go to a food bank or some other place it could be utilized. the only way I would tag it would be some crazy situation I can't imagine, where me taking it would be the only way it wouldn't go to waste, but I think about every situation, I could avoid that outcome.

the fellow (John) who saved my bacon this year outlined the route I would take pretty well, I think a fair percentage of folks would do the same. it's a very long shot, especially around here, but I saw and lived proof it can happen.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Lefty » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 8]

Im doing what Paul mentioned
" I'd holler out searching for him."
"I'd break it down & put it in bags but leave it there! "
"Take photos of the elk before breaking down. --"
" Head out & talk to all camps you can locate in the area"
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Swede » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 9]

There is something wrong about this whole scenario. If I shoot something and make any decent hit, I will be close by and looking for it until it would be spoiled. I would think any other hunter would be looking all day for their elk. Personally, I don't like hollering to attract people. If someone has shot an animal and is looking for it, they will come around. Hollering can attract anyone.
A hunter will not likely stumble on an elk in heavy vegetation or dead falls. It will most likely be open, and along a travel path.
Paul mentioned checking where the elk was hit. This is a very good idea. If the shot resulted in a quick kill, where is the shooter? Why is there no evidence of the elk being found?
Here are some random thoughts. If I was the shooter and just gone for awhile, I would leave a small personal article, or flagging on the animal so anyone coming upon it would know I will be back. This would be especially true in a more open area. Maybe it would be just some game bags I would leave. I will need them there soon anyway. Maybe not everyone would do that. Did the shooter just go out for help? Do you want to be putting a knife in someone's elk if they just went to get assistance? At 5:00 PM I am not taking a lot of time to decide. It will be late when I finish if I start butchering.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby saddlesore » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 10]

Maybe my thoughts are a little different in that I don't care if I shoot an elk or not,but won't look a gift horse in the mouth.Nothing is said as to if it was shot with an arrow or a bullet. If it was a fresh kill the hunter has to be close by. If he /she left it to get help, it has to be tagged per Colorado regs. Since there is no mention of that, I assume it isn't tagged. I don't know about other areas,but calling a game warden to find out if they know anyone else is hunting in the area would be non productive.They might check camps a long a road but darn few ever get into the back country,nor unless they checked licenses,do they know who it is.Very seldom do I have cell service where I hunt. In my original post,there were not even any cell phones then.

In the scenario,it says that the bull needs to be dressed out very soon. All this calling, shouting, searching takes away from that time table.Screw around with all that and you end up with sour meat. In Colorado,regs say that the first thing yo do is sign and detach your tag. Start processing the animal before that and a CPW officer or Forest Service personnel happens on you and you get a citation. ( Forest Service personnel can serve citations for game law violations in Colorado). You do not field dress it,pack it out or such unless it is tagged.
Tagging it and using it might screw up the rest of your hunt and end it, but it is the right thing to do.Just like if you were hunting a 6 x and a 4x comes past you obviously wounded and a fatal wound at that, but it would probably live 3-5 days.You shoot it and put it out of it's misery. If the original hunter is close, you give it to him even though the person who puts it down has 1st claim to it. If not, you field dress it and claim it as your own.

This scenario is about like one where you have a bull tag and cow comes staggering by gut shot or such and there is no cow season in progress and all you have is a .357 mag .Do you shoot the cow to put it out of it's misery? Shoot it and leave it lay,you are wasting meat,shoot it and notify a warden and you will be receiving a citation.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Swede » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 11]

Saddlesore, I think you are on the right track. I would not be concerned about the game warden out of sight of the road. I tend to think if someone has not showed up by the time you get it butchered and packed out, it is yours. Put your tag on it and head in. Congratulations on a nice bull.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 12]

My thoughts are more along with what Paul was saying. I would do a quick search for someone looking on the blood trail/tracks. A couple of small "yells" isn't going to do to much damage in the big ol woods we hunt in. I'm not saying tell the whole world. If there is a dead elk there is a good chance someone is looking. If no one is found Im going to go a head and de-bone it. Then head back to the pickup and find all the hunters/camps in that area and see if I can find who it belongs too... if I can't find anyone, then I would get in cell service for the next morning and contact the fish and game.... I guess that would be my game plan
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 13]

saddlesore wrote:Maybe my thoughts are a little different in that I don't care if I shoot an elk or not,but won't look a gift horse in the mouth.Nothing is said as to if it was shot with an arrow or a bullet. If it was a fresh kill the hunter has to be close by. If he /she left it to get help, it has to be tagged per Colorado regs. Since there is no mention of that, I assume it isn't tagged. I don't know about other areas,but calling a game warden to find out if they know anyone else is hunting in the area would be non productive.They might check camps a long a road but darn few ever get into the back country,nor unless they checked licenses,do they know who it is.Very seldom do I have cell service where I hunt. In my original post,there were not even any cell phones then.

that is where the scenario differs between regions, I generally know the people who may be hunting where I hunt, all parking areas are on some type of main line road, so the game warden would have a very good chance of knowing who's where.

the is no such thing as "back country" in western Oregon, and there is cell service in most areas, so yes, the protocol would certainly be different regionally.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby saddlesore » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 14]

Besides that, the CPW wardens here don't seem to be as trusting. I don't know if it is because of the number of hunters or what, but they will sure write you up pretty quick and regard any incident as the scenario suggest with a jaundiced eye
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Swede » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 15]

Not to hi-jack this thread, but I wonder what would you say, or do if after butchering and packing to 10:30 PM, you go to a camp and someone says, yes; I shot a bull at 2:00Pm this afternoon? What would you think or say if they could describe the elk and maybe even the hit they made as they stand around in their pajamas? Remember you were with the elk since 5:00 PM, and never heard or saw anyone.

It is obvious some of you would not want to the meat, and would not want to tag it. I am more like Saddlesore. It is nice to get your own, but it is not a critical thing with me. Like Saddlesore, I have shot enough. In this scenario I probably still have a tag or two, so I can still keep on hunting. I certainly don't want to drive around with an untagged animal in the back of my truck. I doubt the game warden would buy the story "I found it and am looking for the shooter" while you are in camo and have your weapon in the back seat. The meat is staying in the woods until it is tagged.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 16]

Yes, the meat for me would stay hung right where the elk is.

As far as your question on what would you say...

I guess before I jumped to conclusions I would want the here his side of the story, he may of lost tracks/blood and spent all after evening heading wrong way but tried all that they could.

Or, he looked for ten minutes and decided to not try anymore and then :evil:
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 17]

Swede wrote:Not to hi-jack this thread, but I wonder what would you say, or do if after butchering and packing to 10:30 PM, you go to a camp and someone says, yes; I shot a bull at 2:00Pm this afternoon? What would you think or say if they could describe the elk and maybe even the hit they made as they stand around in their pajamas? Remember you were with the elk since 5:00 PM, and never heard or saw anyone.
.


If the elk is tagged, it's too late, if not, I would be relieved, the hunters lack of dedication is not my problem.

I am still at the point I don't want a bull I didn't kill, I would feel cheated on my season. I love elk meat, but I think part of the appreciation is knowing I earned it, even if one in particular was easy.... that's just me.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Swede » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 18]

Roosie, I really understand your position on that. I have never had a free elk and was not saying I want one either. I would prefer to just keep on hunting. But after gutting, butchering and packing one out, I am going to tag it, with no reservation, if I can't legitimately determine the real shooter. I am concerned why no one ever came around while I field butchered and packed the animal. I recognize there are reasons why a person may have lost or left the animal. I am just not going to make it obvious up front I have just found and processed an elk for them. I want to hear their story first, and if I am not satisfied, it will go to the butcher shop with my tag.
I would feel rather proud to help someone that had a health or other real emergency and had to go in. If I hear something lame, they will probably not know I ever found the elk. The one I saw was wounded, and two miles away near the mouth of Hunter Creek. I could not tell if it stopped in the timber above or kept going over the ridge.
One thing I have heard of several times over the years, is hunters shooting and not following up to see if they hit their target. Humm?
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 19, 2018 •  [Post 19]

Swede wrote:Roosie, I really understand your position on that. I have never had a free elk and was not saying I want one either. I would prefer to just keep on hunting. But after gutting, butchering and packing one out, I am going to tag it, with no reservation, if I can't legitimately determine the real shooter. I am concerned why no one ever came around while I field butchered and packed the animal. I recognize there are reasons why a person may have lost or left the animal. I am just not going to make it obvious up front I have just found and processed an elk for them. I want to hear their story first, and if I am not satisfied, it will go to the butcher shop with my tag.
I would feel rather proud to help someone that had a health or other real emergency and had to go in. If I hear something lame, they will probably not know I ever found the elk. The one I saw was wounded, and two miles away near the mouth of Hunter Creek. I could not tell if it stopped in the timber above or kept going over the ridge.
One thing I have heard of several times over the years, is hunters shooting and not following up to see if they hit their target. Humm?

I hear ya, and agree with your mindset, I will be perfectly content never having to face that situation. I have only ever found one lost elk, and from what I could tell, it was shot from a paved road, likely at night to end up where it did, how it did. it had 2 different types of arrows in it, looked like 2 shooters, one shot was good, one shot in the back of the ham. I feel like they didn't go look for it, it couldn't have went far with the shot, and it was less than 100yds from pavement, but it looked a couple days old, far from salvageable.

I avoid other people and popular areas, so if it ever were to happen, I feel I could find the hunter, because I likely know them. this past season, because of the extreme heat, was the first time I have ever hunted a "popular" area, but even at that, it was only popular to the locals. I saw more people in the woods last year than the rest of my hunting combined, but I knew how limited I was on distance I could hunt and get an elk out of the woods solo. after hunting that little chunk of public a couple times, even with 3 or 4 other guys in their daily, I figured out the routine of the elk and felt I pretty much had it to myself ;) i'm fortunate I was hunting a popular area, or there is a good chance I would have lost my first archery animal, this big old rack sitting above me humbles me daily, it wouldn't be above me here if I wasn't eating his meat though, had some pretty dang good elk steaks tonight! (just have to tenderize the heck out of them and marinate them in olive oil every time :lol: ) i'm killing a spike this year! or at least a little rag, something 2.5yrs old or less.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Tigger » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 20]

As I read the comments I realized I wouldn't be too quick to tag it. Pretty easy that the person gave the bull an hour to start looking. A blood trail can take awhile to follow. Maybe they went back to camp first to get help or pack frames. Pretty easy to spend a couple hours before you actually set eyes on the dead bull. Once you have tagged it and are quartering it, what are you going to do when a 13 year old kid walks up with his dad following the blood trail? If you haven't tagged it, you are all smiles and handshakes. If it is tagged, then it gets pretty dicey. Your tag is used and you cannot hunt anymore and it is clearly the kids elk (who shot it at say, 3:00 pm). At the very least, you cheated him out of taking pictures with his first elk! This is a dicey situation which would find me sitting down and thinking before I did anything. Finding the hunter who shot it solves a lot of problems.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby six » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 21]

Well I for one am not against putting a fresh stealhead on my stringer that has jumped out of the river and stranded itself on land. Pretty much taste the same as the other ones I’ve caught out of the same river. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.

As for the elk. I definitely wouldn’t want to rob anyone, especially a young hunter of a trophy pic. I wouldn’t want the meat to spoil either. I think I may take 30 minutes and see if I was able to backtrack the blood trail to the shooter gathering evidence such as broken arrow, footwear impressions, or flagging to help me identify the shooter. If at any point I had or could easily get cell signal I would call the DOW office with coordinates of the bull. I would then proceed with whatever means they tell me I could. If I wasn’t able to contact anyone I would start breaking down the bull. The note on the tree prior to breaking down the elk is a great idea incase the shooter comes along while your standing over his elk. As a last resort I’m tagging the bull.

We do have that guy in camp that always buys a tag, but he's not the best hunter in the woods. I know for a fact no questions asked he would tag it.
Elk are where you find em...
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 22]

Tigger wrote:As I read the comments I realized I wouldn't be too quick to tag it. Pretty easy that the person gave the bull an hour to start looking. A blood trail can take awhile to follow. Maybe they went back to camp first to get help or pack frames. Pretty easy to spend a couple hours before you actually set eyes on the dead bull. Once you have tagged it and are quartering it, what are you going to do when a 13 year old kid walks up with his dad following the blood trail? If you haven't tagged it, you are all smiles and handshakes. If it is tagged, then it gets pretty dicey. Your tag is used and you cannot hunt anymore and it is clearly the kids elk (who shot it at say, 3:00 pm). At the very least, you cheated him out of taking pictures with his first elk! This is a dicey situation which would find me sitting down and thinking before I did anything. Finding the hunter who shot it solves a lot of problems.

good points!

especially about someone possibly giving the bull time to expire, and in that time going back to get pack boards. I have personally done that, if I wasn't sure of the shot, and need pack frames anyways, I may kill 2 birds with one stone and head back and get what I need, this could take time, and give the impression the bull is abandon.

I have now wised up, and bought a few "real" packs in the last few years, so I may still wait awhile, but i'm staying on scene. I have never waited over 90 minutes to track an elk (one deer I did) but I know some shots would justify a longer wait.

I made a poor shot on a spike several years ago (only shot I have taken over 50 yds, and he took a step as I shot) the shot was obviously back, and I planned on giving him time, but he ran out in a clear cut, less than 150 yds from where he was shot, and I watched him tip over after a bit, but had he made it to the timber, I would have given him probably 4 hrs.

again, good, valid points, things aren't always as they seem.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Roosiebull » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 23]

six wrote:Well I for one am not against putting a fresh stealhead on my stringer that has jumped out of the river and stranded itself on land. Pretty much taste the same as the other ones I’ve caught out of the same river. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
.

funny you mention that :D

a few years ago I was fishing kings in tidewater from the bank, while I was there, a seal ran one of the biggest kings I have seen to date up on the shore, he was a legit 45+lb fish, freaking monster! big platinum chrome buck. I wanted that fish pretty bad, but went over and grabbed him, and sat there and revived him for a few minutes until he had the strength to swim off. I was fishing that spot for about a week straight after that hoping my good karma would allow me to catch a similar fish, but I didn't get any giants, haha.

another time summer steelhead fishing with a buddy, right at dark, a big pod of fish shot the riffle, and about 6 beached themselves, we dropped our rods and went out there and got them all back in the water. I personally like the whole process, not just the end product.

a guy I know kept a nice king by the Elk river mouth that beached itself, he saw it as a gift, but the game warden who was watching didn't, he lost his fishing license for 2 yrs :o
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Swede » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 24]

Elkhunttoo wrote: For conversation we will say that the meat is still good but it looks like this bull needs cleaned out soon for it to stay that way?


Lets not forget this is the situation we are presented with. I have killed two elk that were close to spoiling when I found them. You can tell. By myself It takes about four to six hours to dissect a critter that size and normally pack it out. If the 13 year old is out there looking for the bull, I would gladly give it to them, but I would try to gently remind him/her that it was close to spoiling because he/she had not got onto it. Because of the possibility of someone coming along to claim the animal at some point is why I would take the risk of not tagging it until right before it goes in the truck.

I said; you can tell if it needs to get butchered right away. Rigormortis, cool body surface, insects, and look at the eyes. When the hide is off also check by cutting through the hams down to the bone and smell. If it smells bad before you put your nose up close, it is too far gone.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby elkstalker » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 25]

I would feel pretty strange tagging someone else's elk... but even stranger cleaning and hanging an elk with no tag punched... I would likely gps the kill and try to find the shooter first, even to the point of hiking back to the road/trailhead and taking a short drive to locate the shooter.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby ishy » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 26]

5 pm -I am probably going to start breaking it down and hang it. You walk away that is sacred meat that is going bad by the second. As awkward as it would feel taking care of someone else's bull, I just feel like all of us at one point or another have had trouble recovering an animal. I kind of feel a connection with all hunters and we should do what we can to help each other out. I would worry about tracking down the shooter, fish and game, etc...after breaking the bull down. Depending on the situation and temperatures and how far in it is I might think about packing meat.
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby olympushunt » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 27]

This post reminds me of a story my father in-was told me. It was opening day of the rifle elk season in Washington a long long time ago. He was young and excited to be out on a weekend of leave from the Marine base. Since he only had 2 days to hunt he was out in the woods early. Shortly after it started breaking light he hears gun fire, multiple shots fired, and to his horror he is hearing bullets whistle over head. He proceeds to find the biggest tree near him and become one of those dang tree huggers we hear about. When the smoke cleared so to speak he looked around and about 50 yards away is this dead spike buck. While collecting his thoughts this guy wearing one of those black and red checked jackets comes walking up this trail and spots the deer. The guy says a few colorful words out loud and turns back the way he came and scampered off. My father in-law was about to say something to the dude but became nervous the guy might decide to leave no witnesses behind. So after the dude left he walked over to the deer to see the poor thing laying there. He is shaking his head when he hears "Nice deer ya got there." It was the state trooper. "Not my deer!" says my father in-law. Suuuuuuuuure. lol. Long story shortened he tells the cop what happened and describes the guy...red hair....red beard and what direction he came from. He even shows him where the gun fire came from and after walking over that way they found spent shell casings. So the cop ended up believing the story and knew the guy who did it and where he was camped at. The trooper asked my father in-law to help roll the guts out and pack it back to his truck. So my father in-law asked him "Well......do I at least get to have half of it then???" Nope. "Sorry....I can't do that." "Well...can I at least have the backstraps off it???" Nope..."Sorry". One more question my father in-law asks. "Do you have a pocket knife?" The trooper says....."Yah" So father in-law tips his hat and says "Have a nice day" and off he went!
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Re: What if?? Find dead bull?

Postby Elkhunttoo » 02 20, 2018 •  [Post 28]

:lol: nice
Elkhunttoo
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