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What Can Go Wrong?

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What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Swede » 04 21, 2018 •  [Post 1]

100% Imaginary Situation.

Four guys, all new to me and relatively new to archery elk hunting want to hunt together. All have seen some great hunting videos and visited the different elk hunting forums. One has gone on a couple of rifle elk hunts with a friend, but has never personally shot one. Another has never ventured out on an elk hunt. One drew a cow tag and scored a few years ago, but has not gone since, and the fourth has gone on a couple of guided rifle elk hunts and got one bull. They all want us to hunt together and form a hunting partnership. These individuals work in offices or factories, but one is a carpenter. How would you vet this cast of characters even if you wanted to have someone to hunt with and not be alone? What could possible go wrong?

The point of this is to try to inform some less experienced hunters what can go wrong. I have had the honor of hunting with some great sports. Most of the people I have hunted are great. There are some I don't return to the elk woods with twice.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 04 21, 2018 •  [Post 2]

This.....is gonna be a good thread ;).
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Swede » 04 21, 2018 •  [Post 3]

RJ, I am hoping to read some good stories here. Lets forget about the invited guest that plays tricks on you. :D
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby saddlesore » 04 21, 2018 •  [Post 4]

I'm going to pass on a comment,so don't get banned
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Joe Schmo » 04 22, 2018 •  [Post 5]

I’d say that if they don’t bite off more than they can chew, too far in/too steep, they’ll have a great time. Of course if/when they kill one they’ll likely realize they should have gotten in 100x better shape and learned how to quarter an elk.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Trophyhill » 04 22, 2018 •  [Post 6]

It's hard for me to hunt with someone else. I'm selfish and want to do things my way. The couple times I've hunted with someone else, it felt like my hands were tied.

It's funny cuz when I'm tagging along on someone else's hunt, I still get my way. ;)
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Lefty » 04 22, 2018 •  [Post 7]

I should just put my feet up on this one.

Im jumping back in the goose pit on this one;
guys forgot their license
no duck stamp,
Never got their HIP.
Lack cold weather gear,.. bring another with out asking.
wont chip in for gas/ food
" My dos well trained" :roll:
Do you have toilet paper.
Even had some guys finishing their last beer from the whole night before at 5:30 AM Worthless gear,
dirty gun ( wont cycle)
havent developed higher ethics


All too often newbies dont realize what is all involved and dont come prepared.
But a big part for me is the excitement newbies bring to the hunt so Im fine with safe "mistakes"

Swede the only thing wrong with newbies is you need to give them your pack to carry out your meat 8-)
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby jmez » 04 22, 2018 •  [Post 8]

A lot can go wrong on a backcountry hunt, even with experienced guys.

I think the bigger problem with new guys is not having everyone on the same page prior to leaving. Like most situations that go badly, lack of communication from the start is the root cause.

Everyone needs to be on the same page from the get go. Lay out your expectations from the start. Tell the new guy how you do things and let them know that under no circumstances are you going to let them ruin your hunt/experience.

Lack of physical conditioning is probably the biggest thing. We've taken new/different guys in the past. From day 1 they are told that they we won't wait on them, we won't slow down for them. If they can't handle it or keep up they are on their own. If that means they sit at the trailhead for 4-5 days by themselves so be it.

This actually happened last year. One of our regulars went on a moose hunt in AK. Another guy brought his cousin for his first trip west. He didn't prepare and wasn't in shape, didn't think it would be that big of a deal. He was warned from the get go.

They flew in and I usually pick the one guy up at the airport. I made he and his cousin rent a car this year. I wasn't coming off the mountain early for his cousin and I wasn't going to let him take my pick up to go back to town. That was step 1. His cousin was told, we aren't leaving early, you can't handle it then you can leave and take the rental care, you're on your own. Step 2.

We hike about 5 miles into camp, cousin was given a GPS at the trailhead with camp marked so he could find his way if we left him. Step 3. Told him we wouldn't wait around. We have about enough time to get in and get camp set up and then glass for about an hour. I was going to glass for an hour.

It didn't go well for the cousin. The first mile isn't steep and fairly easy walk. He did fine here. The last 4 are all uphill until you drop camp. About 1/2 mile into the climbing he started asking how much farther we had to go. A mile in he was lagging behind. About 1/2 way in he was really lagging behind. We ate a snack and let him catch up. He was struggling. We had a discussion and told him we'd see him at camp. There was fresh snow so all he had to do was follow our tracks to camp. We left him sitting in the middle of the pack trail. He rolled in about the time we came back in from glassing.

He didn't look too good, said he was sick and just wanted to go to bed. I made him eat something and drink some water. He was still asleep when I left the next morning. When I got back into camp that night he really didn't look good. Wouldn't eat and we basically had to make him drink water. He didn't get more than a half mile from camp all day. His cousin left him and went hunting. He basically sat on a rock all day glassing and didn't see any elk.

He was asleep again when I left the next morning. When I got back to camp that night, Bob was there but his cousin wasn't. I asked where he was, Bob said he left this morning. Bob was getting ready to go hunt and his cousin told him he couldn't take it, was sick and wanted to leave. Bob said, Truck is marked on the GPS, see ya. He packed up and left and was on an airplane home that evening.

It didn't affect either of us as we had discussed it beforehand and taken the steps needed to prevent it from screwing up our hunt.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby ElkNut1 » 04 23, 2018 •  [Post 9]

Trophyhill wrote:It's hard for me to hunt with someone else. I'm selfish and want to do things my way. The couple times I've hunted with someone else, it felt like my hands were tied.

It's funny cuz when I'm tagging along on someone else's hunt, I still get my way. ;)



LOL!

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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby scubohuntr » 04 23, 2018 •  [Post 10]

I'd take these imaginary guys out for a weekend trip in pretty easy country at least once, because I'd never go deep with someone I didn't trust completely. In fact, I'd probably put in a couple of seasons deer hunting with them in increasingly rugged terrain before I'd ever go for elk. I'd also make sure we never got within fifty miles of my best spots, if I had any.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Swede » 04 23, 2018 •  [Post 11]

I have found that things can go wrong with anyone. It happens with guys you really like, work with, and have hunted with. With new hunters, or at least new to you, there is a great potential for different expectations and different hunting styles. Imagine someone going with me and expecting I was going to call elk for them. I would either go with them and not like it, or would go to my stand and they would think I was a jerk.
I hunted with a friend years ago. I was with him when he had an opportunity to shoot a dandy elk. I asked why he didn't shoot. He said his scope was fogged up. That was about 1974. He new I had a good spare rifle in camp, but never asked to use it. I found out that his scope had been fogged up for several days. I got the only elk on that trip. He was welcome to use my rifle, but was afraid to ask. We had hunted together several seasons, and did after that. I have no doubt he would have lent me anything I needed if he was not using it, but the subject had just never come up.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby CurlyTail » 04 23, 2018 •  [Post 12]

Hunting with Family is always a safer option because you already know their strenghts, weaknesses, and quirks. They can't BS you. You also have probably gone camping with them before, and know if they are good workers in camp or slackers.

I would get this imaginary group together and have a pow wow about things like gear, level of dedication, rest days, length of hunt, physical abilities and limitations, type of hunt (backpack, bivy, basecamp, drop camp etc.). Figure out what their knowledge level is. It doesn't matter how much you know as long as you are all near the same level.

Seems unlikely to find 4 good hunting partners in one random shot. Best to expect a few issues until the group gets fine tuned in time. Might be better to pair off with the one most compatable guys, and share camp with the other pair, offering to help carry meat if needed.

You would have to like the guys, and have a similar level of passion for the hunt.

We took a new guy to our area last year. He was going to hunt Traditional Bow, and stay as long as needed to get the job done. After one hot and elk less opening weekend, he was out of there and never came back the rest of the season. I figured a guy who wanted to hunt with tradition gear would show a little more perseverance. He will not be invited back.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Indian Summer » 04 24, 2018 •  [Post 13]

I’m prejudice so that’s easy. Take the one who works hard every day for the things he wants: The Carpenter!
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby N2mywake » 04 24, 2018 •  [Post 14]

Guys reading through all this hits home. Ive had guys go that far exceed me physically fail on the hunt and guys that haven't been be open for the challenge.

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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby elkstalker » 04 25, 2018 •  [Post 15]

I usually elk hunt alone, but have also hunted quite a bit with other for deer, chukar, and waterfowl. I must say that there is a broad spectrum of hunting styles out there and the best think you could do to vet would be to try and get an honest opinion of their style and capabilities. I took one guy chukar hunting and at the end of the day he said he'd never even hunted deer that hard and he's never chukar hunting again. To me it was an easy to moderate hike and not even close to tough chukar hunting. Another guy I have hunted with will rarely leave his ATV, and that's what he considers deer and elk hunting. I have another good friend that I have elk hunted with a number of times and he is willing to go wherever I go, never complains, and we have a blast together. Find out what their expectations and capabilities are and heck, maybe you could just share camp together, but if you're going to hunt together, make sure they know what their in for an can handle it.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Brendan » 04 27, 2018 •  [Post 16]

Here's my take on something pretty important. Everyone needs to be excited and involved about the trip - starting with the planning, prep, and training. If you're having to convince them, or do things for them - bad things are going to happen when it matters.

BTDT.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Swede » 04 27, 2018 •  [Post 17]

Brendan is right on target. Also pay attention to excuses. If you start hearing excuses, it will get worse. I have found people want out, but they don't want to offend or upset you, so they give you an excuse. If that does not work you will get more.
If you get an excuse about something on the hunt; just tell them to let you know right away if they need to cancel.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Lsb » 05 04, 2018 •  [Post 18]

I hunt with my wife. She's my best friend and I get just as big of kick out of watching her get excited as if I was out front shooting. I'd still like to be out front a few more times.....

There's one guy in Idaho welcome in my elk camp besides her. I think he's coming to call for us this year.
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Re: What Can Go Wrong?

Postby Roosiebull » 05 09, 2018 •  [Post 19]

In the situation above, I would tell them to hunt together, I will do my thing until I have an elk processed in the freezer, but if I get lucky and that happens, I will hunt with them the rest of the season to learn their personalities and see if the dynamics would work.

I'm not under any circumstances starting my season with a group of guys I have never hunted with unless they have proven they can handle the mental and physical aspects while having a good attitude.

I have pretty much planned on future hunting seasons my whole life. The career path I chose was strictly so I could hunt, not because that's what I wanted to do when I was young.

Hunting is my getaway, I will not blindly compromise that for a group of guys I have not hunted with, it would take time.

I'm not opposed to hunting with others, but at this point, I am very picky who I hunt with.

If I am fortunate and fill a tag early, that is when we can see if it would work in the future, and until I really trust you, we probably aren't hunting the spots I would be hunting that day by myself.

I have been burned enough trying to be nice, after it biting me in the rear enough times, I have learned people aren't always as they seem.

I'm in a good spot right now, because I'm not looking for hunting buddies, so if I find one, they will be a good one.

People who can stay positive with a good attitude through a week straight of hard hunting without a close encounter with a bull at least are rare, finding 4 of them at once isn't happening.

Mental toughness is more important than peak physical shape. I have taken people on hard hunts that are not in that good of shape, but they do it without complaint, I have hunted with people in really good shape that become a victim really quick.

I will never put someone through what I don't think they can handle, but I'm not opposed to testing someone on our first hunts together.
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