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Closing the Deal

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Closing the Deal

Postby LarryBud » 05 25, 2018 •  [Post 1]

Man... the seasons swing faster and faster as I get older. Here we with June a few days away.

My Son and I have our tags in for CO MZ. Odds are fair that one of us will draw( unless the new, no-cost tags blow the whole thing up ). Last year was our first real good run at it and we were blessed with a fantastic 6x6. Skill? Hard Work? A little of both but mostly luck. We did have a 5x5 at 15 yards a few days later but my Boy was winded before the shot presented itself.

My challenge is that we're a one trick pony. We would locate and then my go to set up was a cow being dragged off against her will by a bull. it worked twice but we were up to bat probably 8-10 times over the week.

I'm looking for another tool. Often we would get a response to a locator and then close the distance.. Nothing else. Other times we would get a couple of replies but not be able to close the final deal. I know a wide range of skills being deftly applied in the appropriate setting is ideal but.. I'm a hack and would rather refine one or two go-to tricks. How about suggestions on one other good closing plan I can add to my current line up? Early season, CO Public land. Lots of company but 95% of the hunters drive around on the road all day?
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby ElkNut1 » 05 26, 2018 •  [Post 2]

Larry, you're using a highly aggressive method in the Threat for every elk, not good! You need to employ a Slow Play method! With those two your odds for close encounters will multiply! Slow Playing bulls is a true & proven elk killer in timber hunting!

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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby Elkhunttoo » 05 26, 2018 •  [Post 3]

[quote=]My challenge is that we're a one trick pony. We would locate and then my go to set up was a cow being dragged off against her will by a bull. [/quote]

Just curious as to what sounds you were making to imitate this sequence? I know every body does things a little different so to give you another "tool" I'm just wondering what you are already using. I've never hunted with a muzzle loader in the rut but I would think it is not near as important to put them in your lap as it is with archery. But it is always fun no matter what :D
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby Swede » 05 27, 2018 •  [Post 4]

After you get a reply to your location bugle, close the distance down as much as reasonably possible, then cow call. Move to a good set up location and wait if you get no response. If the bull calls to you, move a few feet ahead of the location you were at and bugle hard back at the bull with a smallish bull sound, then move to your pre determined set up location and wait. You are truing to sound like a small bull with one cow that any larger bull can take away from you if he comes in to get her. Your cow may need to call back behind the bull sound location you made and sound like she is interested in leaving.
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby LarryBud » 05 28, 2018 •  [Post 5]

ElkNut1 wrote:Larry, you're using a highly aggressive method in the Threat for every elk, not good! You need to employ a Slow Play method! With those two your odds for close encounters will multiply! Slow Playing bulls is a true & proven elk killer in timber hunting!

ElkNut/Paul


Thanks for the reply.

Slow Play Method? I have the " Play Book " and the App. I don't see this listed as specific technique. Is it in there somewhere?

I'm learning step by step.
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby LarryBud » 05 28, 2018 •  [Post 6]

Elkhunttoo wrote:[quote=]My challenge is that we're a one trick pony. We would locate and then my go to set up was a cow being dragged off against her will by a bull.


Just curious as to what sounds you were making to imitate this sequence? I know every body does things a little different so to give you another "tool" I'm just wondering what you are already using. I've never hunted with a muzzle loader in the rut but I would think it is not near as important to put them in your lap as it is with archery. But it is always fun no matter what :D[/quote]

Where we hunt, it's close quarter no matter the weapon. The MZ is an advantage because you don't need the motion to draw and may be able to punch through some light brush but not a distance advantage. We'd never get a shot beyond 20-25 yards because of the thick cover.

We would locate a bull, try to close the distance. Often we would only get one second reply, sometimes none at all. We would go to where we think it was ( or as close as we dare without pushing it ) and set up. With the shooter out front, my technique was to start with some cow calls, then introduce tree raking and stomping, then some whining cow calls with a struggle in the bushes.

It worked very well once. I do need some new tricks in the bag.
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby LarryBud » 05 28, 2018 •  [Post 7]

Swede wrote:After you get a reply to your location bugle, close the distance down as much as reasonably possible, then cow call. Move to a good set up location and wait if you get no response. If the bull calls to you, move a few feet ahead of the location you were at and bugle hard back at the bull with a smallish bull sound, then move to your pre determined set up location and wait. You are truing to sound like a small bull with one cow that any larger bull can take away from you if he comes in to get her. Your cow may need to call back behind the bull sound location you made and sound like she is interested in leaving.


Thanks Swede. Sounding like a " smallish Bull " huh? I can work on this. We hunt with two people. Would the shooter be the small bull and the call continue to be the cow or have the caller do both?

Appreciate the advice.

Larry.
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby Swede » 05 28, 2018 •  [Post 8]

If you have one, I would keep the shooter quiet. The way I envisioned things was as a one person dog and pony show. Two persons will make it simpler. The caller can move a little back and forth behind some cover. Just keep the small bull closer to the real bull than the cow and make it sound like you the small bull is keeping her from going to him. Try to put a little excitement into your calls. As the small bull you can add some thrashing of a bush or small tree. Just don't get caught by the real bull.
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby ElkNut1 » 05 29, 2018 •  [Post 9]

The info for Slow Playing elk is throughout the APP & Playbook, I don't have it listed under that specific name as it's just a phrase! In the APP methods of use are under the Tips portion after each sound.

There is no one or two methods that will work on every elk, if there was the kill stats would exceed 90% instead of 8-9% -- Adapting to each encounter where calling is used is a craft, it is a process & takes time to master.

There are times to call elk to you, go right at them, retreat while calling, be aggressive, don't be aggressive, etc. Reading The Situation & applying the method for best odds of a close encounter is a challenge & a blast at the same time. It doesn't take long to see the differences with certain encounters. I listen for their emotion in their call to determine their state of mind, this dictates to me how to handle that encounter. It's like choosing the right iron once in the fairway for the needed distance to the green!

Take swedes suggestion for instance on his first comment, he shares a method to consider as a 2nd one to add to your present aggressive method. Here's where understanding by a bulls emotion/response comes into play! What if the return bugle you heard was a Challenge to stay back or else! This shows defensive action by the bull, he most likely has a cow in or nearing estrus, he's most likely not going to leave her & come to you because you cow called & bugled, he already has a hot cow in his presence, a hunter needs to rethink his strategy for this guy for best odds of a close encounter!

The best Setup & Calling approach just to have elk show up is a Cold Calling Setup! It can be used at anytime of Pre-Rut, Peak Rut & Post Rut! It's safe & elk will come your way when you stay rooted in one spot for up to an hour! If Running & Gunning is more your style you will need to up your intake of methods & techniques to call in 8 out of 10 bulls over 1-2 out of 10.

By the way, the best Slow Play method is to convince other bulls that you know are within earshot but not eye sight that you are a bull with a hot cow, this is especially effective when there are no hot cows present in your area! A cow does not vocally express herself when nearing breeding time, the bull does! Remember that key point! A bull who is courting & being defensive has a cow present that is near breeding. He will display for her & warn other bulls to stay away when heard or getting to close to them! Polish that method up & bingo, you will call in more bulls! The key is to start slow, hence slow play.

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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby Swede » 05 29, 2018 •  [Post 10]

Where I hunt, I am more likely to get something to come in silently by doing what Elknut calls "Lonesome Charlie". All you do is get in some good cover with available shooting lanes and start making frequent whiney small bull calls. Continue doing this for up to an hour. I have had them run in and sneak in so stay vigilant and ready.
BTW: If you are wanting different plays so you won't be a "one trick pony", there is the "Playbook" advertised on this forum. After you read through that book you will have more plays than you thought possible.
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby CurlyTail » 05 30, 2018 •  [Post 11]

Another favorite from Pauls bag of tricks, and one I have used sucessfully during muzzleoader season - Call and Stalk

The caller stays back and keeps a Bull talking with Bugles. The shooter sneaks forward silently, and with the Bull making all that noise your chance of spotting him before he spots you is pretty good. Once you kill the Bull, the caller comes up and takes your picture and packs out your Bull.
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby Swede » 05 30, 2018 •  [Post 12]

Curly, That is a great plan. Do you have a tree stand version I could use?
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Re: Closing the Deal

Postby LarryBud » 05 31, 2018 •  [Post 13]

CurlyTail wrote:Another favorite from Pauls bag of tricks, and one I have used sucessfully during muzzleoader season - Call and Stalk

The caller stays back and keeps a Bull talking with Bugles. The shooter sneaks forward silently, and with the Bull making all that noise your chance of spotting him before he spots you is pretty good. Once you kill the Bull, the caller comes up and takes your picture and packs out your Bull.


A solid plan for sure. Can never have too many picture after you shoot the big one.
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