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Elk and Cattle/Sheep

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Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby rvanbw00 » 07 12, 2018 •  [Post 1]

Curious as to other's take or experience with Elk co-mingling with cattle and sheep. In my limited experience, it seemed we've run into much more elk sign after we gained enough elevation to lose the cattle. Could this be coincidence, or do the elk try to avoid the cattle?

Another question (I realize that it is very situational): do cattle seem to drop off and remain below a certain elevation? Or, say your valley floor is at 6,000 ft...is there a relative threshold that they will not go higher than?
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby Tigger » 07 12, 2018 •  [Post 2]

It is not legal to shoot a cow or sheep on an elk tag.... :lol:

We have never hunted where there were cattle. But we have seen sheep right up on top (actually you pro"bah" bly drove through some last year after you drove by our camp). The elk were actually lower in the timber.

I don't think elk will be right in with a herd of sheep due to the shepherds and dogs. But I bet they are back in a couple of days if not less.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby saddlesore » 07 12, 2018 •  [Post 3]

Cattle will go where there is grass.Some of the most abundant and nourishing grass is just below the rocks in high meadows at 9-10,000 feet. Elk will not stay around huge flocks of sheep, but will move back into the area in two weeks or after the sheep are removed. They generally are not among bigger herds of cattle,but when pushed ,they will descend to the private land and live right among the cattle.

You have to remember,there are no hard and fast rules about elk.They don't read all these books will go where they are not shot at, harassed, or where there is forage.

This is a part of a herd of about 400 head.Those are cattle in the background.2nd rifle season,CO,mid October.

gunnison.jpg
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby rvanbw00 » 07 12, 2018 •  [Post 4]

Dean, your dad jokes are the only thing getting me through the day at this point!

Anyway, thanks for shoring up my assumptions. Cant say that a ribeye at 9,500 ft would be terrible though!
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby Swede » 07 12, 2018 •  [Post 5]

Here are my observations on cattle and elk mingling.
Elk will tolerate some cattle in their area, but after awhile, where there are lots of cattle, the elk move away. When you add hunting pressure to the cattle situation, the elk move out quickly.
Where cattle grazing is not somewhat restricted, and they are allowed to eat about everything, the elk won't move back for months. Often they go to the ranch and stay there until the ranch people start chasing them in the rifle season, or the winter forces them out. Where cattle grazing is light, their affect is minimal.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby Deanmac » 07 12, 2018 •  [Post 6]

Two years ago I hunted a State park which had some sections that had cattle and some that did not. I saw way more sign in the areas with no cows. Also the only elk I saw were in the areas that were not grazed that year. The Park Ranger said it did not matter, but that is not what I saw, I think he just did not want all the hunters going to the same sections.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby stringunner » 07 13, 2018 •  [Post 7]

I have game cameras up over a fairly decent area of public land. All of which has cattle grazing. My observations from pics which is also enhanced by on the boot scouting, when the cows show up, the elk move out. They may co-mingle for a few days as the cows are moving into the new allotment but once the cows have a heavy presence, poof....elk disappear. I agree with saddlesore above that when forced to mingle due to a variety of reasons, they will. But from my perspective, the elk would rather not.

It’s always a game opening week where we hunt. I can almost always tell you what stands will be good and which will be dead as soon as I see where the cattle are or have been. The cattle in our area beat the ground and don’t leave a single bite for any other animal, the elk move out and don’t return for months. Grazing enforcement is not a big priority on the part of those hired to manage the forest floor where we hunt. There are two stands in particular that will have bucks, bulls, and elk cows daily for the entire month of August, every year, as soon as I get a pic of the first moo cow at either of those two stands, 1-2 days and nothing but moo cows will be there for the rest of September. I have 5 years of pictures of this. I check those stands immediately when getting up there, no cows, good chance of filling a tag on the opener, any sign of cows, better go sit at Swede’s spot. 8-)
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby ishy » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 8]

I did have one run in few years ago with a small herd of elk I heard before light and closed the distance just as it was getting light. I crested a ridge right at first light to the sound of sheep all around the elk. It was still dark enough I could just see ghostly forms in the distance. Next thing I know I've got 5 great Pyrenees closing in on me from multiple directions in about the most aggressive mode I have ever seen a dog in. I had my bow ready to draw, but luckily they just held their ground at just a few paces away. One of the most frightening times I've had in the woods.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby jmez » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 9]

Where we hunt I'm MT the elk co mingle with cattle. There aren't any sheep around.

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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby js80138 » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 10]

Saddle your picture brought up an interesting question for me. Would I take this shot? I have never been in this situation but I personally would pass the shot for fear of somehow hitting a cow by missing, pass thru etc. I don't even know if its possible that a bullet will continue travelling through game with enough lethal energy or at what distance another animal is safe. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby saddlesore » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 11]

js80138 wrote:Saddle your picture brought up an interesting question for me. Would I take this shot? I have never been in this situation but I personally would pass the shot for fear of somehow hitting a cow by missing, pass thru etc. I don't even know if its possible that a bullet will continue travelling through game with enough lethal energy or at what distance another animal is safe. What are your thoughts?


Those elk were on private round and no hunting.About midway thru archery season,they start congregating on that ranch. By rifle season,all the elk in the eastern part of the GMU are there and stay there until spring
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby js80138 » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 12]

I do apologize if my question implied or came across any other way than just curious and maybe this is better suited for the "What Would You Do" series posted in this forum. I do appreciate your reply as always.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby Swede » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 13]

Saddlesore hunts with a muzzleloader. The elk appear too far for a muzzleloader. A high power rifle, good scope and a solid rest would make a difference. In that case I would go for one of the mature cows at to near the far left or right with no elk directly behind. I also like it that some have no calf.
Could a bullet pass through some cow in the herd and kill another? Well what gun are we talking about and what bullet? I also have a difficult time getting an exact distance from a photo, so I say it appears, or something like that.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby saddlesore » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 14]

No offense taken js 80138. I have killed two deer with one shot ,never had the opportunity at elk.The elk in the photo were perhaps 300 yards.

Ye if legal and not on private land,I might take a shot as Swede suggested. It's pretty dicey with all the cattle behind them though. Plus in CO. I would have to get 50 feet off the road.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby Lefty » 07 14, 2018 •  [Post 15]

Tigger wrote:It is not legal to shoot a cow or sheep on an elk tag.... :lol: .

Ok that was funny!!

I dont like huntnig with sheep at all,.. or cows,.. but most of the west is pastured. the elk generally dont go too far,.. maybe a few miles at times. Find the thick stuff the sheep or cows wont go into,... and often you can find elk. Get into some blow down the cows cant walk in,..
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby SoCo Mark » 07 15, 2018 •  [Post 16]

I know the area in the picture posted by Saddle Sore. The great thing about this area is, IF he was allowed to hunt on this land, he could easily pass up this shot, due to the cattle in the background and/or because the elk are bunched up. He could continue down the road until he found a nice, fat dray cow standing by herself without any bovine around. :D :D :D
Hey Saddle Sore, I did not draw this year, and if I'm to return to the area this year I'll either have to luck out and find a returned tag or go second or third season.

Maybe I'll go second so you can chase an elk to me and then pack it out after I shoot it... :D :D
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby saddlesore » 07 15, 2018 •  [Post 17]

SoCo Mark wrote:Hey Saddle Sore, I did not draw this year, and if I'm to return to the area this year I'll either have to luck out and find a returned tag or go second or third season.

Maybe I'll go second so you can chase an elk to me and then pack it out after I shoot it... :D :D


Don't know what I'm doing yet in rifle season. I had my shoulder replaced last December and it's is still not 100% . I drew a ML cow tag for Unit 12 again so I hope I"m up to that.Guess I will watch the left over list to see what is there. Unit 54 would be a last option for sure, but if I'm around, look me up if you punch your tag
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby CurlyTail » 07 16, 2018 •  [Post 18]

I don't like to hunt around cattle or sheep. Sheep have sheep herders and sheep dogs not too far away. Cattle are better but they seem to trample the prime habitat. I find it preferable to avoid both if possible.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby SoCo Mark » 07 17, 2018 •  [Post 19]

Thanks Saddle Sore, I appreciate the offer! I really want to go first season and I'm very leery of going second season with it being OTC. Last year I picked up returned bull tag for first season. There were 5 posted and they lasted more than a few days. I never did see a cow tag. A bonus to hunting second is I can hunt several areas, even some in the Gunnison Basin. Maybe I can use this year to find a new area to hunt.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby saddlesore » 07 17, 2018 •  [Post 20]

Yea,I would not hunt 2nd season.Past two years I did and saw only one elk calf .Some guys camped further back in by tehUbit 53 boundary scored 3 elk the last day
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby dotman » 07 30, 2018 •  [Post 21]

In my experience sheep with ruin a good elk spot immediately, I think it is due to the dogs and herders constant activity around sheep.

I have yet to see cattle blow elk out of an area, maybe if the ranchers a riding checking on the herd they’ll leave for a few days but they commingle where I hunt.
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby >>>---WW----> » 07 31, 2018 •  [Post 22]

A few sheep or a few cattle are no problem. But when you get large herds like hundreds of cows or thousands of sheep that over graze everything as they pass through, that's when the problem starts!!
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby elkstalker » 08 02, 2018 •  [Post 23]

After having elk pushed out of one of my spots due to livestock (cowboys stomping around the woods for a few days gathering cows tends to move the elk out), I always call the range specialist (FS or BLM) so I know what pasture the cows are supposed to be in. In my experience elk don't move far when livestock is present... they could be 1/2 mile or less away. It actually helps me to focus in on where elk are (and aren't).
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Re: Elk and Cattle/Sheep

Postby Swede » 08 02, 2018 •  [Post 24]

elkstalker wrote:In my experience elk don't move far when livestock is present... they could be 1/2 mile or less away. It actually helps me to focus in on where elk are (and aren't).


I have found the same thing. I have also noticed that industrial operations like logging don't push them far away during the hunting seasons.
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