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Use A Guide

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Use A Guide

Postby Swede » 09 28, 2018 •  [Post 1]

On average it takes 7-10 years before an elk hunter gets their first elk. That average includes people that can get out and scout and persons familiar with their hunting area. We can improve our odds by getting drawn for a high percent unit. But, if a hunter is not wise to the ways of elk, probably they won't get one. A person can pay an enormous amount, to get a pasture fed elk, that is behind a tall fence, but that doesn't make anyone an elk hunter. It just puts $100 steaks on their plate. Maybe they can fool their friends into believing they got it fair chase, but it is what it is.
Many new hunters find the prospect of going after elk an exciting challenge, but when they consider everything, they are reluctant to make the sizable investment. Gear, travel, license and tags all will take us into the high dollar range, for what amounts to less than a 5% ( my estimate) chance at getting any elk.
As suggested in the title, I believe that getting a guide could help a lot in helping a person become elk savvy. It costs around $8,000-$10,000 total to go on a good guided hunt. I think it is a good investment. I think Indian Summer's services, and the use of an experienced elk would go a long way in making a hard working individual a success.
We all know that there are a lot of resources, books, magazines and other media that is available to help people learn techniques valuable in elk hunting. Most, I have found are applicable to limited areas, and best suited to people that can relate through some considerable experience. So here is the question: What else can you think of that will shorten the time it takes to get an elk and give a person a reasonable prospect of getting one even on their first hunt?
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby saddlesore » 09 28, 2018 •  [Post 2]

It all depends on what that person will settle on. A cow, a 300+ bull, or some thing in between,there is big difference. If a person hunts a migration hunt and pops what ever comes by, it's pretty easy.If they chose an OTC hunt, say in Colorado, and have to opt for at least 4pt bull,that gets a lot harder.
Another factor is if the hunt is on public or private land.Just paying a trespass fee can yield some good results without guide.

A guide will certainly up the success rate, but no hunt is guaranteed.

While ML hunting this year ( cow tag), a very good friend of mine came down to my camp and asked me if I could take a day off and guide a father and son for day .Since she offered two on one hunts, and she was shy one guide. She would have had to put three on one.

This was the third day of the season.I had not tagged out yet, but agreed( this gal is a very close friend) .The son only wanted a bull and he had a ML tag.The father had an archery either sex tag and said he would not shoot a cow the first day.The first 1/2 hour we had three cows within 60 yards,standing. They passed.Then we had a bull that would not come in , and finally at 10:00 AM he must have went to bed, because he stopped answering.About 3 PM. I got them into about 4-5 cows and a 5X bull. The son could not get his gun up quick enough and missed the opportunity.About 4PM, I called a cow up hoping to get a bull to follow and the cow walked passed the father at about 3 yards. I could have filled my tag on any of those cows, but left my rifle in camp since I was the guide.

The next day another guide took over and I went back to hunting( never did tag out that week.) The son finally took a cow the 4th day and the father never got a shot.When I first took them out I advised them both to not pass on an elk the first day that they would take the last day and don't pass on any legal elk.

Sometimes having a guide don't help much if the hunter doesn't do their part.
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby Lefty » 09 28, 2018 •  [Post 3]

I just lost my reply
I was successful early on mostly from generalized outdoor experiences
And hunting a few times with better than average elk hunters, a couple days at the same camp that was it
I was fairly stealthy and hunted elk like white tails
I killed my first elk on the 2nd day of hunting after 3 times being under 50 yard from 3 different bulls
I was lucky don’t hunt elk like whitetal
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby Indian Summer » 09 28, 2018 •  [Post 4]

Having an experienced guide can definitely put you on the fast track to becoming a diy elk hunter if that’s your goal. I’ve booked hunters who were very clear that they were there to learn. I always made sure I matched them up with an upbeat guide who enjoyed teaching and made it a habit to think out loud passing on information as they hunted. Not all guides are like that. Some are just the “follow me” type. Likewise some clients are just the “lead the way” type not really asking many questions or putting much thought into where they are going or why the guide makes the decisions he does.

Hindsight is 20/20. Once you know how to find elk in an area it’s easier to learn how to find them in other areas. I hope this makes sense but the thing you need to accomplish is to learn a thought process as much as you are learning how to sniff out elk. So if you do go on a guided hunt by all means you should take a topo map and make notes all over it. The idea is to use that map as a template. Most areas have at least some similarities. A main ridge with big drainages on both sides and smaller secondary ridges or fingers that branch off of the main ridge. So when you go to your own area imagine that you are back where you were with the guide. In your mind lay the template over the map of the new area. You’d be surprised how fast you feel at home even though you’re in unfamiliar country. Hunt it the way the guide did and you should be off to a pretty good start.

Obviously if you can partner up with someone and learn in the same area you will be hunting on your own you’ll be better off.... as long as they know what they are doing. But not everyone has that luxury. If you don’t and you don’t want to shell out $3500+ for a guide you might be interested in one of my hunt plans. The benefit is that you get to jump right into diy hunting in an area you can continue to hunt instead of paying an outfitter to hunt a spot you’ll never go back to. If you plan on using an outfitter as a stepping stone eventually you’ll have to find a spot of your own anyway. But to set your own camp, prepare your own meals, hunt elk on your own, and pack one out if you kill it is a lot to bite off if you’ve never been in the mountains before. Some people don’t mind and are all for the learning experience not minding if they don’t kill an elk. I guess that’s the other benefit of a guided hunt..... if you are a first time elk hunter and really want to kill an elk there’s no question that the right guide will increase your odds of punching a tag.

One thing is for sure.... if you kill an elk on your first 1-2 diy hunts it can be considered more luck than skill. Anyone who is experienced at consistently killing elk just smiles when a rookie kills an elk and says that wasn’t so hard.... I got this. You’re not an elk hunter until you’ve been skunked a time or three!
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby Swede » 09 28, 2018 •  [Post 5]

Well said I.S. I sure agree elk hunting is mostly mental. If it was mostly physical the twenty something and thirty something hunters would get them all. Confidence and knowing you are doing the right thing keeps you out there, even when you are not up to your armpits in elk. When I am not seeing elk, I know that can change in an instant.
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby 2Rivers » 09 29, 2018 •  [Post 6]

I have gone guided 3 times and solo twice. Got frustrated trying to get guys together as a group/build points ect. I think going guided you will have opportunities at better quality bulls.my hunts have been with a muzzle loader, not that it really matters though. Solo I'm 0/2. Guided 1/3 with one not recovered. Easily could be 3/3. The main reason I go guided is for the genetics and quality of bulls, 320-350+.
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby Indian Summer » 09 29, 2018 •  [Post 7]

2Rivers wrote:I have gone guided 3 times and solo twice. Got frustrated trying to get guys together as a group/build points ect. I think going guided you will have opportunities at better quality bulls.my hunts have been with a muzzle loader, not that it really matters though. Solo I'm 0/2. Guided 1/3 with one not recovered. Easily could be 3/3. The main reason I go guided is for the genetics and quality of bulls, 320-350+.


Unless your guided hunts are on private land I don’t understand that when you can hunt the same areas as public land outfitters. In my experience many times a guide has his hands tied by hunters that can’t physically handle the terrain and altitude so I’ve always found it easy to outhunt guided hunters.
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby 2Rivers » 09 29, 2018 •  [Post 8]

His camps are on public land. I don't think it would be ethical if me to DIY hunt around his camps. Plus access is by horseback.
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Re: Use A Guide

Postby Indian Summer » 09 29, 2018 •  [Post 9]

2Rivers wrote:His camps are on public land. I don't think it would be ethical if me to DIY hunt around his camps. Plus access is by horseback.


You are very right about it not being ethical to hunt on top of an outfitter that you had hunted with. But as you probably know they can only get so far from base camp. And you’d be surprised what is closer to the road than a horse access only camp. If there is good hunting in the area there’s a spot for you somewhere. It’s the Rocky Mountains! And big bulls don’t have a preference of who kills them.
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